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Post by Ben Burgess on Mar 1, 2005 20:54:40 GMT -5
Certainly when one thinks of the Battle of the Somme one immediately thinks of needless slaughter, crushing losses and embarrasing defeat. But had it not been for the offensive at the Somme the German push at Verdun may well have broken allied lines.
French moral was at an all time low and had been for some time, after appauling German losses the Verdun offensive was finally turning in Germany's favour and arguably it was only the routing of troops to help defend at the Somme that saved the allies from a potentially defeating breakthrough.
Similarly Haigs daring plan for battle was not designed to be fought in the Somme area. Only after much pressure from allied commanders did he decide to deploy his tactics on this part of the front. The allies needed to detract the attention of the German commanders away from Verdun.
In this respect, therefore, it can be argued that the Somme was a fantastic success story and perhaps one of the most well informed decisions of the entire war. Of course this statement is extremely debateable, hence its introduction to the forum.
The Somme, success or abject failure? You decide
Ben
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Professre Rommie dods
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Post by Professre Rommie dods on Mar 10, 2005 15:24:25 GMT -5
The Somme was a complete failure, If the Germans hadnt of attacked us at the Somme then we would have won the war. But they did and look how we lost!
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Post by Pip on Mar 10, 2005 17:04:52 GMT -5
If the Germans hadn't attacked the allies at the Somme then they pure and simply wouldn't have been defending themselves. The Somme was an allied offensive aimed at breaking the German lines. We lost because we deployed units using a plan that was not only unsuited to that particular area of France but unsuited to that particular period of time. The First World War saw tactics in use that were almost Napoleonic in their doctrine. It wasn't until later in the war that 'lines' were abolished in favour of skirmishes. We lost at the Somme because we were far too ambitious and far to eager to simply 'throw' men at the enemy in the hope of a successful 'last push.'
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andrew
Long Term Member
Senior Contributor
Posts: 66
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Post by andrew on May 13, 2005 15:46:08 GMT -5
I do not believe that the Somme was a major factor in the defeat of the Germans at Verdun. To me it seemed that the Kitchener's volunteer army was massacred for no reason. Yes, the theory behind the diversion the Allies were try to make was sound. But the tactics employed were not modern by any standards. I need to read up more on the Battle on the Somme but I don't think the Allies ever penetrated to even the Germans 2nd line of trenches. To the Germans it was a fly that annoyed you but nothing more. Those Brits could have been must more utilized by help the French at Verdun. But definitely could have taken up more of the line to relieve other French division for Verdun.
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Post by Ade D on Nov 5, 2005 19:54:07 GMT -5
The Somme is a very emotive subject and for very good reason. However in any discussion of the offensive its worth bearing in mind the German perspective.
Desperate final assaults were launched by the Germans at Verdun in late June because they new the British offensive was brewing.
4th Army's much maligned week long fire plan was worked out on a scientific basis. X amount of explosive would shatter the German positions which needed Y number of guns to deliver. But Y amount of guns were not available hence the week long fireplan which did not work. They simply got it wrong rather than being just being plain stupid.
Haig was under political pressure to launch the attack, privately he didn't consider his volunteer army was ready for action. This was also the reason for attacking in those long slow lines as it was felt this was the best way to encourage the men forward. It was accepted that this made them a great target but no matter the fire plan would protect them - oops another mistake, but one made for the right reasons.
Lastly after July 1st 4th Army plugged away at the German positions till November in what was effectively bite and hold tactics. By the end of the battle German losses were not far short of those of the allies and German loss accounting procedures were somewhat more lax. Check the stats if you don't believe me!
Was the Somme a success - hardly. But as Crown Prince Rupprecht of Bavaria said (from memory) 'the werhmacht is dying upon the Somme' !
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